Israel and Palestine: No peace without equal rights and the application of international law
In an interview with UCB News on Tuesday 10 October, Embrace CEO Tim Livesey shares his deep concern for the ordinary people of Palestine and Israel. He also discusses the need for a different status quo in the region, the importance of equal rights, and the necessity of upholding international law.
Family homes damaged in Gaza City by Israeli air strikes in May 2021
Q: Can you start by telling us why you are so concerned about where the current situation in Israel and Palestine is going?
TL: There is an inevitability about what is about to happen. In the short term, I am concerned for people’s safety. The Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Netanyahu, is using language that is terrifying for ordinary Gazans: things like ‘reducing Gaza to rubble’. Gazans know what that means: that they are not safe, that their house may be destroyed. A ground invasion is a real possibility, although it would be very difficult for Israeli forces to operate inside Gaza.
In the longer term, I am concerned because this response gets us absolutely nowhere. We’ve been here before – in fact, we’ve been here for the best part of 70 years! It is deeply frustrating that the international community – which the UK is part of – has not done more to bring about some kind of settlement that allows everyone in this part of the world to live in peace. At Embrace, we don’t comment on what a political outcome might be. But we want people – who we work with through our partners and who have the same needs as you and I – to live peaceful lives. What is happening now sets any hope for peace back a long way, and frankly it wasn’t very promising to begin with.
Q: Do both sides of this actually have anything to stand on? Do they have any genuine points here?
TL: It depends who you’re talking about. The political actors are also the military actors – Hamas on the one hand, and on the other the Government of Israel. I don’t really have much to say about them. Why? Because at Embrace we are much more concerned with the citizens of Israel, of Gaza, of the West Bank, of East Jerusalem, and the lives that they are leading.
Despite this horrendous situation, the needs of ordinary people are much the same the world over. Currently, living in Gaza – but also living in the West Bank – is practically intolerable. We visit a lot and know these parts well. The West Bank is now totally shut down – there’s no one going in or coming out, and also no movement between cities in the West Bank. It’s very difficult to live in those kinds of conditions and of course it’s also difficult to live in Israel, feeling as though you’ll never be secure. The reality is that everybody needs a different status quo, something that looks very different from the current situation. At some point we’re going to have to figure out how to get there.
Q: What might it look like for people to live peaceful, secure lives in the region?
TL: One important thing is equal rights. We would like to see everybody being treated a great deal more equally. It shouldn’t be the case that one people group, on the basis of religion or ethnicity, has different rights from another people group. That’s not how we operate - in theory - as a humankind – and it’s not consistent with the rules of the international order.
We can’t ensure that everyone has equal economic opportunities (we can try but we’re not very good at it in this country), but in terms of their basic rights, and the respect that is accorded them, there should be equality. For us as Christians, this is on the basis that everyone is created by God and in His image, and all are equal in his sight – this is something we can aspire to and work towards.
Q: And how might we get to the point where equal rights are realised and peace prevails?
TL: I think the international community must play a much more constructive role than it presently does. Let me give you an example: the statement put out by the so-called Quint countries (Britain, Italy, France, Germany and the United States) on 9 October, is (perhaps understandably at this moment in time) unequivocally condemning of Hamas – but also unequivocally supportive of the Government of Israel.
What the statement doesn’t say is that there are any kind of constraints on how this situation should be dealt with. I would suggest that’s basically not applying things like international law, which those same countries (some of them permanent members of the Security Council) say they always wish to see upheld. The statement doesn’t mention that (maybe they will later, I don’t know), but right now if you’re a Gazan you would hope that international law would apply even in this horrendous situation.
Now, those countries seem to leave it to the UN, which is a bureaucracy, but I think they should be working together and we should all be working towards peace. And that’s not going to come without a certain amount of pressure on the political actors.
This Q&A transcript has been edited for length and clarity. You can listen to the full interview here.
YOU MIGHT ALSO BE INTERESTED IN…
PODCAST:
Never losing hope in Gaza,
with Dr Suhaila Tarazi, Director of Al Ahli Hospital in Gaza City